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murayyyy

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  • Birthday 09/11/2001

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  1. Your GoS path + script install subfolders exceeded the windows 260-character limit, i just rolled out an update that makes the path shorter. Should work for you now 🙂
  2. check out my new topic, I think you'll enjoy it. 😉
  3. A while ago I posted Orbama, my GGOrbwalker fork, together with Lee Harvey Osward, my first script. Building the most overkill Lee Sin possible meant rebuilding most of the orbwalker. Since then that turned into a full script family that covers everything you need in a game, built to work together as one package: Orbama — orbwalker, input pipeline and SDK OrbamaPrediction — prediction OrbamaUtils — activator, Auto-Smite, enemy cooldown tracker, recall tracker, ward tracker, awareness EvAYYYYde — evade; this is still the most work in progress AyyyyIO — 59 champions. The 49 of them that exist in classic are also included as a classic script variant. Use the whole family, and only the family Every part of the script family shares the same core instead of each script doing its own thing: One input pipeline. Spells, attacks, Smite, items, dodges and wardjumps queue in the same priority system. They never fight over your cursor or keys. Shared game state, read once per tick. Data such as enemy positions, buffs and incoming attacks is read once and used by every script. The scripts don't each repeat the same work against the game, so the package stays light. Cooperation. Evade knows your champion's dashes, shields and blinks and asks the champion script to cast them. Utils owns Smite and items for every champion. The overlay is shared, so everything shows up in one place. That only works if nothing else competes for the same inputs. So I recommend disabling all other scripts and using only this family for everything. That is why the installer does exactly that by default (see the install section at the end). OrbamaUtils Highlight: an enemy cooldown tracker that works again Riot disabled the reporting of enemy spell cooldowns. The game reports 0 for every enemy cooldown, so every other cooldown tracker I tried is broken: it shows everything as always ready. I built a workaround that still works. Cooldown data from the game files. I extracted every ability cooldown from the installed game files: each champion's spell data, separately for Normal and Classic (173 Normal and 73 Classic identities). Cast detection. The tracker detects whenever an enemy casts an ability and starts that cooldown, with the enemy's current ability haste applied. Casts are recognised from: the enemy's active cast; a recast spell (e.g. Lee Q2) returning to its first stage a mana/energy drop that matches exactly one ability's cost. Fog of war. It even works for most abilities when the enemy is in fog of war briefly. When an enemy disappears, the tracker remembers their mana and mana regen. When they come back, it calculates how much mana they actually spent in between. It then works out which combination of their abilities matches that amount. An ability that appears in every matching combination is counted as cast. One that only appears in some combinations is shown as "possibly cast". If they recalled during the fog, it knows nothing was cast. Summoner spells. Flash: detected from the blink itself, a 250–520 unit jump of a champion with no dash or cast behind it. It works in fog if a Flash particle is seen at either end. Ignite, Exhaust and Heal: credited from the debuff or heal from the target champion, to the only enemy in range who has that summoner. Teleport: credited from its channel. Barrier, Ghost and Cleanse: credited from their buffs. Cooldowns as a range: summoner haste is only partly visible. Boots are visible; runes such as Cosmic Insight are not. So summoner cooldowns are shown as a range instead of a guess. It's honest about uncertainty. Exact timers are white; estimates are amber. Spells with refunds or resets are always marked as estimates, for example Ezreal's Essence Flux refunds, Kog'Maw Q and Katarina. Champions whose slots can't be read reliably (form swaps like Nidalee, Jayce and Elise) are left out rather than shown wrong. At first I tried to design it anchored to each champion, like all traditional cooldown trackers, however I found it not only distracting, but significantly impacting performance because it needs to move along with each champion. I landed on a design that I think is not only always useful, but never in the way and with great performance and minimal fps impact. The panel sits left of the bottom HUD, one row per enemy. Each row has a portrait, Q W E R tiles (ready = green, ready R = gold) with draining fills and seconds, and summoner icons with a curtain while on cooldown. OrbamaUtils: everything else it does Auto-Smite (toggle; the menu entry only appears when you carry Smite) Targets: Bosses, Red and Blue and Ordinary camps are togglable seperately. Damage: uses the real Smite damage for your Smite version, the live value on Classic. High performance: it detects the camp's health dropping and gets the Smite ready a moment before it becomes lethal. Because of the integration in the Orbama input pipeline, it stops the orbwalker, evade and all other features from using the cursor and getting in the way, and fires the instant it turns lethal. Optional: keep one Smite charge for nearby objectives. Recall and teleport tracker A HUD list of enemy recalls and teleports: portrait, remaining seconds and a progress bar. It shows whether each one finished or was cancelled. A finished recall moves the enemy's last-seen marker to their fountain. Last-seen awareness A portrait at each missing enemy's last-seen position, on screen and on the minimap, with a seconds-missing counter. Positions that are inferred (after a recall or a fogged respawn) are marked "~". Ward tracker Enemy wards with lifetime countdowns, on screen and on the minimap, sorted by type: Control, Sight, Trinket, Farsight. Wards are remembered after they leave your vision until they expire. Activator Potions: below x% health, x% while jungling. Never while recalling or already drinking, and never wasted on a small missing amount. Cleanse, QSS, Mercurial: stuns, roots, charms, fears, taunts, suppression, sleep and more. Knock-ups are ignored, since nothing can cleanse them. Mikael's covers your allies. Zhonya's, Heal and Barrier: in real emergencies only, meaning an enemy is actually on you. Locket: for you or an ally. Offensive items: Tiamat and the Hydras are used as attack resets right after an attack. Stridebreaker, Randuin's, Youmuu's, Shurelya's and Gunblade are used in Combo. Champion scripts decide burst items. Champion scripts can take over items and Ignite when they know better, e.g. Ignite only when the burst actually kills. Classic: gets its own activator: DFG, BotRK, Cutlass, Muramana toggle, Twin Shadows, Ohmwrecker, Seraph's, Crystalline Flask, Total Biscuit and more. Automatic ability leveling Skill orders come from the highest-win-rate builds on lolalytics (Normal) and METAsrc's Classic pages (Classic), for every supported champion. Maybe editable in the future. It never levels while you hold Shift/Ctrl/Alt or while recalling. Obviously optional, toggle on/off Turret warning, waypoints, experience Turret warning: turret ranges near you, and a "Turret targeting you" label. Optional: enemy waypoints with arrival times, and enemy XP. Orbama: the orbwalker and the input pipeline GGOrbwalker was the foundation. Regular GGOrbwalker-style SDK use still works. Orbwalking Modes and targeting: Combo, Harass, Last hit, Lane and Jungle clear, Flee. The usual target sort modes plus per-champion priorities. Click to select: left-click an enemy to focus them. The selection survives brief fog and then gives way. Target champions only: Orbama holds the game's champions-only key during Combo and always gives it back: when Combo ends, on focus loss, in chat, or on death. No more stuck champions-only mode that leaves waves and camps without attacks. (GG Bug) Attack resets are only counted once the game actually shows the reset, never just because a key was pressed. This covers many extra champions and Classic versions. Kiting: the next move goes out right after the attack windup; normal moves click where your mouse already is, without moving your cursor; a move is never sent onto a unit, so it can't turn into an attack by accident. No attacks while untargetable: your champion doesn't spam attack commands while untargetable, e.g. during Master Yi Q, Fizz E or Vladimir W. Last hitting: incoming attacks are indexed per minion, so prediction stays cheap even in big waves; damage is modelled for Spellblade items and for many champion passives and on-hit effects, including Classic items; unknown empowered attacks are learned from what the game shows. The input pipeline (the part that started all of this) Priorities: every action has a priority, a deadline and conditions. The most important action that can actually be executed goes first. An executable Smite can jump ahead of ordinary waiting work. Cast once, cleanly: expensive work (prediction, collision, terrain) is done before the cursor is touched; positioning and the key press then happen in one short step; required holds after sending are kept; cleanup always runs. Your input wins: a real click or key press from you is recognised at once. Synthetic cursor positions never become your next movement target. Waiting casts can survive your mouse movement and right-clicks without firing late. No wrong targets: for targeted casts the cursor must actually be over the right unit before the key is sent. Off-screen skillshots: these can be cast along the right direction instead of being refused. Minimap clicks for long walks. For script developers: Actions / ActionClient API: priorities, deadlines, mode and held-key conditions, resources and reservations, follow-ups that wait for real evidence, held keys, charged spells, and cooperation with Evade. Plain calls still work: plain Control calls keep their old immediate behaviour. Shared overlay Bind strip: one compact line per status at the bottom right of the HUD (example screenshot above in the cooldown tracker section, on the right) Fits every screen: the layout lines up with the bottom HUD of both Normal and Classic SR and was checked on 17 common resolutions from 1024×768 to 7680×2160. You can drag it and scale it. EvAYYYYde: evade that works with your champion Spell catalogue 250 champion profiles: 174 Normal and 76 Classic. Over 4,800 spell records generated from game data. About 690 abilities with dodge shapes. Shapes Lines, missiles, cones, circles, rings, fans, auras that follow their caster, traps, delayed marks, returning projectiles and channels. They are drawn the moment a cast starts, not only once a missile flies. Collision-aware: a skillshot that will be stopped by a minion, champion or ability (e.g. Wind Wall) is shortened at that blocker. Unknown projectiles: hostile missiles that aren't yet in the catalogue are still avoided; might have bugs, report each ability below. Planning Fast and bounded: decisions every 25 ms, with a safety margin. If nothing clears the margin, it falls back to an exact tight escape. Your fight comes first: it keeps your channels and trades through cheap poke; it never holds a recall through a hit; it prefers dodges that keep you in attack range of your target. Works with the orbwalker: attacks are canceled only when the attack windup would get you hit, and never for long. Your champion's tools Evade knows each champion's dashes, blinks, untargetable moments (e.g. Master Yi Q), shields, damage reduction, speed boosts and heals. The champion script performs the cast. Examples: Zed can dodge by swapping to an existing shadow, or by placing a new one and swapping when it lands. Lee Sin can W to an ally or ward, or ward-hop, but never while W is saved for a planned Insec. Built-in defences: spell shields (Morgana, Nocturne, Sivir), Fiora's parry aimed at the attacker, Yasuo and Samira wind walls, and Zhonya's. Optional Flash for hits that would kill. Targeted threats: targeted spells and enemy auto-attacks at you feed the defences, so a shield or stasis comes up when a lethal hit is on its way. Default Binds K: turns Evade on or off. Hold Mouse5: pauses dodging - if active, your Combo and Harass keep attacking and casting, for when you want to fight without dodging. AyyyyIO — 59 champions Normal + Classic (49): Aatrox, Ahri, Akali, Amumu, Annie, Ashe, Blitzcrank, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Corki, Ezreal, Fiora, Fizz, Graves, Irelia, Janna, Jarvan IV, Jax, Karma, Karthus, Kassadin, Katarina, Kog'Maw, Lee Sin, Leona, Lulu, Lux, Malphite, Master Yi, Miss Fortune, Wukong, Morgana, Nami, Nasus, Nautilus, Nidalee, Pantheon, Quinn, Rammus, Ryze, Shen, Sivir, Skarner, Sona, Teemo, Tristana, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Vayne. Normal only (10): Jhin, Jinx, Rell, Seraphine, Thresh, Viktor, Xerath, Yone, Yunara, Zed. Classic isn't Normal with a different name: each Classic champion has its own mechanics data: damage, ranges, spell stages and items. Every champion gets the same core: Combo, Harass, Last hit, Lane clear, Jungle clear and Flee, with per-mode ability switches. Spell farm toggle for every farming mode. In Last hit, abilities only save a minion your basic attack can't take in time. Kill secure without holding a key: it counts shields and regeneration; it never wastes a kill on Kayle R, Zhonya's, Guardian Angel, Tryndamere R, Fiora W or Jax E; Ignite is used only when it completes the kill. Health-bar combo damage and KILL marks. Interrupts and anti-dash without holding a key. Ally shields and heals that react to real threats on your allies: attacks, spells, turrets, skillshots, targeted missiles, damage over time. Flash combos where they make sense, always off by default or on a held key. Spellblade-aware damage (Sheen family), with Normal and Classic item tables. Evade integration: dashes, shields and effects are offered to EvAYYYYde. Automatic leveling with win-rate skill orders. Auto-jungle on every champion Turn it on and let it jungle while you do something else. Routing: it starts from the camp you're next to; it accounts for travel and camp respawn timers; it finishes a damaged camp first; it waits for Krugs to split; Red and Blue win priority when close to multiple camps. On the way: it uses the minimap for long walks; it kites melee monsters between attacks; below 25% health it finishes the camp only if it survives, otherwise it backs off, and it recalls only when safe, otherwise flees to base until safe. Camera: it holds your center-camera key while it runs, so the camera stays on your champion. Default is Space, set it to your "hold to center camera" key. Enemy jungle: off by default. Even when it's on, your own available camps come first. Status: the strip shows what it's doing, e.g. "Auto-jungle [J] routing to Wolves". Stopping: any click or combat key stops it, and J starts it again. It never starts bosses on its own. Guide: F8 opens the interactive guide: Topics for most features of the full script family Topics for many champions' features with clickable settings in the guide Lee Sin — the script that started it all, now inside AyyyyIO: The best wardjump ever (shared with Classic Katarina and Jax): Tap for an instant jump. Point at ground and tap the bind; there's no minimum hold time. If the spot is in range, Lee jumps exactly there. If it's further away on open ground, he jumps as far as he can toward it. No wasted wards. If an allied champion, allied minion or ward already sits near your aim, Lee jumps to it instead of spending a ward. It has to be at least as far as where you pointed. Hold to plan a wall crossing. Hold T and aim at the part of the wall you want to cross. The planner searches around your cursor for a real landing spot on the far side, and checks the range from where Lee is actually standing. The preview shows the result. Green: direct jump. Yellow: assisted landing, or Lee walks into range first. Red: no landing yet; adjust or wait. While you move the cursor, the preview keeps the last valid plan instead of flickering. Release to jump. The plan you saw is the plan that runs. If Lee needs to walk into range first, the walk path is checked for walls, then he jumps on arrival. If the shown plan stopped being reachable, it tells you instead of jumping somewhere else. The cheapest ward goes first. Free trinket charge, then Sightstone-type charges, then other ward items, and a Control Ward only when nothing else is left Ward to W as fast as the game allows. W goes out the moment the new ward appears. Ward and W are chained through a single cursor move. A placed ward is never wasted. If the W is interrupted before it's sent (a right-click, another key, mouse movement), it's sent again onto the same ward until the jump completes or the window runs out. Uncertain input is never blindly repeated. Press T again before the ward is placed to re-plan. Once the ward is placed, another press or panic-spamming the bind continues that jump instead of spending a second ward. Right-click cancels. Run after landing. During the jump, hover your cursor where you want Lee to go after the jump. One move toward your cursor is sent the moment the jump completes. Built into everything else: Flee: jumps toward your cursor when an enemy is near (on by default). Combo: can spend wards to catch a fleeing enemy, comparing walking against jumping and slowing with E2 first (off by default). Insec: plans its ward for the kick position. Evade: can ward-hop out of lethal hits. Wards are never spent while W is saved for an Insec. Insec: Two binds: Kick towards your cursor kicks toward your team or a turret (turret has priority if the target will land in turret range) hold bind (default Alt) together with the Insec bind to preview first without engaging routes combine Q bridges through other units, W, walking and Flash, and are replanned from what actually happens. Multikick, collateral kills, R conservation, chasing, and Q1-only assist. Auto-jungle: Q travel which detects the camp as down in fog if it doesn't hit, plus all of the shared auto-jungle above. wardclip.mp4 A few champion highlights: Fiora: Q at vitals, using the vital's actual position. W parry aimed at the source. W then Q finisher. Wall-hop preview in Flee. Zed: Q aimed from all shadows; R only when the full burst kills; Evade can use W/R swaps; it can place a W shadow and swap to it to dodge. Yone: hold O for Q3 then Flash. Flash only goes after the Q3 is seen, onto safe ground. Xerath: R shots into fog get a trinket or ward reveal first. Shot order prioritises kills. Your manual Q charge is aimed and released for you. Vayne: Condemn checks walls at the predicted position. Q-then-E to a wall stun. Hold for Flash+Condemn. Akali: kill secure with E1 then E2, or E1, E2 then Q. It checks the mark landed and re-checks the kill before the recast. Irelia: shows exactly what she plans: the E line, the Q hop path, the R-Flash landing and a kill ring. Katarina: dagger pickups scored by passive kills. E then Q only after the E is seen. Twisted Fate: card pick binds (tap picks once, hold keeps picking). A planner chooses card, Q or attack from confirmed damage. Caitlyn: traps on the target's path. If R would kill someone off screen, it names them and fires the moment they come on screen. Menus that don't get in your way Every bind sits under "Controls" in each script menu; labels are plain language that say what happens. Risky options (Flash, dives) are off by default Install (one line) Press Win+R and paste: powershell -NoExit -ExecutionPolicy Bypass -Command "irm https://raw.githubusercontent.com/LeeHarveyOsward/AyyyyIO/main/install.ps1 | iex" or run in PowerShell: irm https://raw.githubusercontent.com/LeeHarveyOsward/AyyyyIO/main/install.ps1 | iex The installer: finds your GamingOnSteroids folder if running (or asks for it if not); downloads the release and checks every file's hash; installs and enables the five family scripts and disables every other active script, so only my script family runs. Reload your scripts afterwards. Updates are automatic: in game, the script checks for a new release. It downloads the release in the background, verifies every file, and switches to it the next time you reload your scripts. Running the install line again also updates. Github Repo: https://github.com/LeeHarveyOsward/AyyyyIO Feedback, bug reports and logs from games are very welcome. Tell me the champion, what happened, and what you expected. cheers
  4. @Feretorix I have a local setup using Qwen3.8-27B-Uncensored-Q8_0.gguf running super fast, and it has access to codex as a research and feedback agent, using Astra default with fallback to Daybreak (gpt-5.6-cyber) if Astra refuses. In my other work, especially for planning, I often use Claude but for this topic I don't think its very useful, as it is a champion at refusing. I've been taxing my local setup alot recently and I've gotten it able to test the scripts itself using computer use and continuously improve without my input, just by logging a bunch of metrics using the script itself and then deciding what to improve from there. Next big release coming soon 😉
  5. I ported ClassicAIO by @Zgjfjfl over to Orbama for fun and had great results with it, enjoy. GGOrbwalker Original: ClassicAIO_Orbama.lua
  6. ARCHIVE NOTE: This thread is archived. Orbama and Lee Harvey Osward grew into a complete script family: AyyyyIO (59 champions), Orbama, OrbamaUtils, OrbamaPrediction and EvAYYYYde. Lee Sin lives on inside AyyyyIO. Continue here: I wanted to try myself at making my first script, and to start off, I wanted to make the most overkill Lee Sin script possible. Then I started working on wardjumps, Insecs and competing inputs, and ended up rebuilding much more of the orbwalker than expected. Here's both: Orbama, my GGOrbwalker fork, and Lee Harvey Osward, the Lee Sin script that started it. Both scripts work in Normal and Classic SR. Quick start & Default Binds Harass: hold C for Q1 opportunities and E harass. Q1-only assistance: hold G. Wardjump: tap T for a direct jump, or hold T to plan. Insec to Cursor / to Team: hold Mouse4 / Mouse5. Insec preview without engaging: hold Alt with either Insec key. Interactive guide: F8. Auto-jungle / Autosmite toggles: J / N. Why another orbwalker? GGOrbwalker provided the foundation, credit to its original authors. I needed scripts to express more than "cast this spell." This Smite is urgent. Keep this Q ready while I move. Cancel when I release Harass. Continue after the ward actually appears. Orbama adds: Priorities that select the highest-priority executable action. Spell and item reservations, deduplication and explicit replacement of owned, unsent work. Deadlines, mode conditions and cancellation. Fresh aim and observation-dependent follow-ups. Cursor, key and button ownership with cleanup. Eligible waiting casts that survive ordinary movement commands. Indexed incoming-attack prediction. An executable objective Smite can take priority over ordinary unsent work. Already-sent input still receives its required stabilization. No fake "0 ms" guarantee. Wardjump: tap or plan Quick jump: point at reachable ground and tap T. No minimum hold time. LHO reuses a suitable nearby W target when possible; otherwise it places a ward and follows with W. Crossing walls: hold T and aim at the section you want to cross. The planner searches around your aim for a usable landing. Green: direct jump. Yellow: assisted landing or approach. Red or planning: wait or adjust. Release T to accept the plan. Approach assistance can walk Lee into range first. Before placement, holding again replans. After placement input has been sent, another press continues that jump instead of immediately spending another ward. Right-click cancels remaining standalone wardjump steps. During the active Wardjump, position and hover your cursor to where you want Lee to run after the wardjump - it automatically sends a right click as early as possible after the wardjump is completed. Insec modes Mouse4: cursor Insec. Select an enemy with Left Mouse and hold Mouse4. Your cursor sets the kick direction. Optional mouse-target fallback works when nothing is selected. Mouse5: team Insec. Plans toward a useful friendly destination. A living friendly turret can take priority when the predicted landing reaches its range; otherwise it considers nearby allies. With no recipient, it uses your position when you started holding the key. Lee does not count himself as the ally, and the fallback stays anchored during the engage. Alt: inspect before committing. Hold Alt with either Insec key to see the target, arrow and steps. Release Alt while keeping Insec held to authorize the plan. Routes can combine permitted Q, W, walking and Flash steps. Q bridges can use another enemy, minion or camp. A closer aligned ward landing can be considered when the usual position is blocked. Before Insec Q2, LHO checks whether the remaining route is still finishable. Flash has separate permissions. Direction can lock on press, lock when the approach commits, or track until the kick. Right-click while holding Insec controls movement and allows replanning. Release the Insec key to cancel. Combat and extra features Separate Combo and Harass spell permissions. Q1-only assistance and optional selected-target-only Q1. Automatic Combo and Harass Q2 off by default. Passive weaving with timely lethal finishes taking priority. Chase decisions comparing walking against spending a wardjump. Multikicks, collateral execution, R conservation, isolation and marked R into Q2. Separate Q1, Q2, E and R killsteal settings. Multikick counts the primary target. Three means the target plus two others. Optional idle multikick takes an available kick without repositioning. AUTO-JUNGLE: Enable at the start of the game and then do more important things for a couple of minutes while the script starts off jungling for you. Pressing J toggles Auto-jungle with routing, Q travel, camp kiting and danger recovery. It does not start bosses automatically and doesn't go to the enemy jungle. Manual clicks, combat modes or another press stop it. W reservation: combat W is preserved for mobility by default. Low HP alone does not justify spending it. Emergency self-shielding checks supported airborne targeted basic attacks for modeled lethal damage, not every possible skillshot. Jungle W remains separately available. Farming: Last Hit can rescue otherwise missed CS using abilities and items. Waveclear and local Jungle Clear have separate policies. Objectives: Autosmite works without a held combat mode, independently of champion selection. Optional Q + Smite assistance has an assignable key. Owned-item actives, potions, QSS, shielding, Ignite and auto-level have separate permissions. The guide is part of the controls F8 opens a 13-topic interactive guide. Click topics or use F7/F9. Underlined settings are directly clickable. Mint means enabled, coral means disabled, blue opens a related topic, and purple cycles direction-lock choices. The guide edits the same settings as the menu and shows your actual bindings. GGOrbwalker -> Orbama: performance improvements, changes and measurements Input work includes active-action protection, delayed key-echo handling, Target Champions Only cleanup, separating synthetic cursor positions from player movement, and preserving required post-send holds. Orbama treats aiming and input execution as one coordinated pipeline. Prepare the action, validate it while it is still relevant, then keep cursor positioning and input delivery as short as possible. The optimized cast path avoids repeating expensive prediction and collision work during that final step, while preserving the input checks, stabilization and cleanup needed for reliable execution. Scripts can also declare priorities, deadlines and cancellation conditions, so urgent actions can take precedence over ordinary waiting work and outdated requests do not fire later. In my synthetic testing benchmarks: incoming-attack prediction returned identical results across 64 queries while inspecting 4,096 attack records in Original-GG versus 320 in Orbama, including index construction. 92.2% fewer read operations in that test - and therefore increased performance. in-client benchmarks with Lee Harvey Osward Input-pipeline occupancy (what % of time is the cursor locked by the script while orbwalking): 41.43% GG vs 20.77% Orbama. Cursor-ownership time per action p95: 188 ms GG vs 94 ms Orbama. Compatibility, downloads and updates Feel free to use Orbama as your Orbwalker or to port your script over. Regular GGOrbwalker-style SDK use is the compatibility target. Developers can opt into Actions/ActionClient for advanced priorities, conditions and follow-ups. Sources and builders on GitHub The repo contains many good basics such as an automatic installer and updater. Feel free to steal those or really any other parts of the code for your own scripts. Couldn't bother to make screenshots, maybe I'll add those some other time. cheers
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